Posted by: Gumby on August 07, 2003 at 17:04:26

The only part that I would like to disagree on is the accidental full-auto barrage scenario. Since I build F/A guns I do have a stake in public perception of them. There is a difference between full-auto and burst fire and semi-auto with uber-light trigger pulls, but not one that makes F/A guns evil incarnate. With full-auto the gun will only fire as long as the trigger is pulled and held. That is the important point to remember. This is different than burst fire which, depending on the settings, will fire a set number of rounds for each pull. Also most "hair triggers" on semis can be more prone to accidentally fire multiple times. I've seen a dropped "semi-only Electro" fire several rounds after it hit the ground. Did else anyone complain? No most of the crowd thought it was great how light the trigger was. Robb Lussier General Manager Get Real Paintball rlussier@adtacsys.com www.getrealpaintball.com : ...and the mistake many people make, is that the reason for the full-auto ban in many places (due to insurance mandates) has little or nothing to do with how many balls per second the gun shoots. It simply the fact that more than one comes out when you touch the trigger. (The use of the word "touch" is important, as you will see) : Here's an unfortunate, but very possible, situation; : Little Johnny Dip**it is playing around with his new "electro-whatever" in the staging area. He doesn't have the sense to turn it off or apply the safety when he is off-field, nor has he made sure his barrel blocking device (BBD) is on his barrel securely. His friend Billy Unfortunate is standing next to him while Johnny fiddles with his new toy. Johnny inadvertently brushes against his new trigger (with it's ultra-sensitive trigger-job) and BLAM! a ball fires out and blows off his barrel blocking device, which hits his friend Billy just below his left eye. Billy then proceeds to beat the...oh well, that's another story. ;^) : Anyway, imagine the same story with full-auto. Instead of one accidental ball blowing off his BBD, it could have been followed by subsequent balls coming out and striking him in the face, eyes, etc. Instead of one ball, four or five are fired from one slip and the chances of being hit in the eye just quadrupled or more. It's simply an issue of one accident being ONE accident, or one accident snowballing into four five. No matter how sensitive the trigger is, one bump (theoretically) equals one accidental shot. This isn't the case with full-auto. : Now, let me say that this is simply that insurance companies' theory. I allow full-auto at Viper Scenario events (I have different insurance coverage) and have since the beginning. We have had zero accidents in eight years and dozens of events across the nation. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen, it simply means that, while allowing full-auto, it hasn't. Of course, we are also very strict about safety. : Insurance companies have to pay for accidents. Lower the risk and you lower the chance they will have to pay. The question is how far do you go? I'm sure they would be happy if we turned the guns down to 200fps and played in thick foam suits and full helmets, and allowed no running or jumping. However, this is unreasonable and the players wouldn't stand for it. Therefore we try and meet in the middle. Full face protection? Acceptable. Ear protection? Also reasonable. What other insurance mandates the future holds? We'll have to wait and see. : Kerry "Viper" Rosenberry : Scenario Director : Viper Paintball Scenarios : www.viperpaintball.com : : : In you're opinions, why is Full Auto fire not allowed on most fields and why should it be or shouldn't it be? : : : : When compared to lightning fast, electro-pneumatic triggers, it seems that high rates of fire are currently reserved for the rich and famous of paintball (unless FA is allowed - giving newer players an equalizer.) : : : : Perhaps the rates of fire should be regulated rather than full auto? : : : : Please take hard shots at my argument, here, if you will. I'm working up to an article thing (maybe.) : : : : Gracias

Follow Ups: Clarification Bill "Capt Bill" Tison 22:44:23 08/07/03 (3) Response Kerry "V i p e r" Rosenberry 12:54:14 08/08/03 (2) Re: Response Robb "Gumby" Lussier 16:40:27 08/08/03 (1) Re: Response Bill "Capt Bill" Tison 21:12:27 08/08/03 (0) Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : The only part that I would like to disagree on is the accidental full-auto barrage scenario. Since I build F/A guns I do have a stake in public perception of them. There is a difference between full-auto and burst fire and semi-auto with uber-light trigger pulls, but not one that makes F/A guns evil incarnate. With full-auto the gun will only fire as long as the trigger is pulled and held. That is the important point to remember. This is different than burst fire which, depending on the settings, will fire a set number of rounds for each pull. Also most "hair triggers" on semis can be more prone to accidentally fire multiple times. I've seen a dropped "semi-only Electro" fire several rounds after it hit the ground. Did else anyone complain? No most of the crowd thought it was great how light the trigger was. : Robb Lussier : General Manager : Get Real Paintball : rlussier@adtacsys.com : www.getrealpaintball.com : : ...and the mistake many people make, is that the reason for the full-auto ban in many places (due to insurance mandates) has little or nothing to do with how many balls per second the gun shoots. It simply the fact that more than one comes out when you touch the trigger. (The use of the word "touch" is important, as you will see) : : Here's an unfortunate, but very possible, situation; : : Little Johnny Dip**it is playing around with his new "electro-whatever" in the staging area. He doesn't have the sense to turn it off or apply the safety when he is off-field, nor has he made sure his barrel blocking device (BBD) is on his barrel securely. His friend Billy Unfortunate is standing next to him while Johnny fiddles with his new toy. Johnny inadvertently brushes against his new trigger (with it's ultra-sensitive trigger-job) and BLAM! a ball fires out and blows off his barrel blocking device, which hits his friend Billy just below his left eye. Billy then proceeds to beat the...oh well, that's another story. ;^) : : Anyway, imagine the same story with full-auto. Instead of one accidental ball blowing off his BBD, it could have been followed by subsequent balls coming out and striking him in the face, eyes, etc. Instead of one ball, four or five are fired from one slip and the chances of being hit in the eye just quadrupled or more. It's simply an issue of one accident being ONE accident, or one accident snowballing into four five. No matter how sensitive the trigger is, one bump (theoretically) equals one accidental shot. This isn't the case with full-auto. : : Now, let me say that this is simply that insurance companies' theory. I allow full-auto at Viper Scenario events (I have different insurance coverage) and have since the beginning. We have had zero accidents in eight years and dozens of events across the nation. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen, it simply means that, while allowing full-auto, it hasn't. Of course, we are also very strict about safety. : : Insurance companies have to pay for accidents. Lower the risk and you lower the chance they will have to pay. The question is how far do you go? I'm sure they would be happy if we turned the guns down to 200fps and played in thick foam suits and full helmets, and allowed no running or jumping. However, this is unreasonable and the players wouldn't stand for it. Therefore we try and meet in the middle. Full face protection? Acceptable. Ear protection? Also reasonable. What other insurance mandates the future holds? We'll have to wait and see. : : Kerry "Viper" Rosenberry : : Scenario Director : : Viper Paintball Scenarios : : www.viperpaintball.com : : : : : In you're opinions, why is Full Auto fire not allowed on most fields and why should it be or shouldn't it be? : : : : : : When compared to lightning fast, electro-pneumatic triggers, it seems that high rates of fire are currently reserved for the rich and famous of paintball (unless FA is allowed - giving newer players an equalizer.) : : : : : : Perhaps the rates of fire should be regulated rather than full auto? : : : : : : Please take hard shots at my argument, here, if you will. I'm working up to an article thing (maybe.) : : : : : : Gracias [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Rec Talk ]