Posted by: Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont on April 17, 2003 at 14:12:51

I actually did it. And people don't believe me til they do it too. The procedure & results are posted in the original post. Just telling you the facts and NOW challenging people with differing opinions but open minded enough to repeat what I did and post it here.... If, I'm full of BS everyone will know it. If they can reproduce the variations I measured then my "test" was validated. Food for thought. Every shooting test will show different results. The nature of testing. Statistical Variance. Uncontrolled variables. All that stuff... Were the review results enough to SEE the difference playing on the field? Just how much bigger did the group get using the same paint and Freak barrel when you use two sleeves 0.001 " different in diameter? How about best to worst covering 0.008" for all eight Freak sleeves? I come from the school of thought that I should get performance results that are OBSERVABLE during play or I'm not inclined to spend money on it. I'm not spending money on a statictically significant distribution of a sample amounting to mean variance of 5%. I want results I can SEE. I would agree that a small bore barrel and large bore paint will likely shoot differently (accuracy wise) than a large bore barrel and a small bore paint. Even be able to SEE the difference in the extremes. No dispute there. Sure, the extremes would be weirder than the middle of the road matches... And NOBODY wants barrel breaks from squeezing a big ball down a small hole. Don't take MY word for it. Get a set of mikes out and measure the largest and smallest diameter of each ball for a decent sample size of 20-25 balls. Write them down. Notice the high, low, and average for the largest diameter. Ditto the high, low, and average of the smallest diameter. In the real world of actually shooting paintballs, how would you PICK which ball diameter you to use for "MATCHING" with a given barrel bore? The largest, smallest, average? You have two ball diameters on EACH BALL that will range across most of the barrel bores available. How do you "Match" THAT? Oh buy the way, Measure the SAME BRAND Paint again two months later. Different manufacturing lot. Gee, it has a DIFFERENT High, Low, & Average than you measured this time. Do the SAME for Every Brand of paint you can get 25 balls for. Swap for 25 balls of every different brand you can find at the field this weekend and take them home. Measure them. Write it down. LOOK at the variance within the same brand ball. About the time you get sick of miking paintballs, you will realize the ball diameters vary so widely from LOT to LOT in the same brand of paint that it is from a practical point of view IMPOSSIBLE to "Match" a given ball diameter to a given Bore size UNLESS you have a VERY SMALL variation in the large to small ball diameters. The is no practical way to be 'scientific' about it because of he variation in paint diameters and out of roundness. In a practical sense, you wind up finding a paint that performs well in your barrel so you buy it over and over again... You have a 'match'..... Unscientific but it works. In the "Quest for Accuracy", How ROUND a ball has a LOT more impact on accuracy than trying to 'match' paint diameters to a given bore size. You can do that SCIENTIFICALLY by just putting the ball in your barrel and holding it up to the light using the procedure in my original post. Use your barrel as a ball roundness guage and use the roundest paint you can afford. If it doesn't roll out and can be blown by mouth down the barrel then you have a MATCH! Not too big, not too small, and it shoots straight. You will find your favorite brand paint shortly after you start borrowing a few balls from different brands of paint to put into your ball 'roundness guage'. Just run down there this weekend and not even pay a field fee or take a marker. Just take the barrel. Bring a set of mikes and some notepad. Couple of hours ought to do it. Dale : That's some pretty heavy stuff you're saying about paint to bore size matching not mattering. I applaud you're audacity and your theories are sound, but trying to convince everyone to throw away their long standing beliefs is going to take more than theories. : I'm just not buying it! I am not the type of person who can be convinced something is true just because the numbers add up. I build automated machinery for a living and I've seen engineers come up with ideas that sound great on paper but they just don't work. On the flip side of that, some theories will never work on paper but in reality they work just fine. For instance, according to engineers and physicists, helecopters should not be able to fly, but we've all witnessed them flying all over Iraq recently. : For years there have been numerous tests in which the results indicate that painball to bore size DOES matter. Many of these tests were unsolicited so the results wouldn't be biased. I have yet to see the results of a barrel to bore size test that showed no difference between matching and non-matching. : If you know of any hard proof of your theories please post it in a reply. I would like to see it. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I would love to see you proven right and watch as the whole paintball community jaws hit the ground. I'm just asking for some test results. : PEACE!

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Just how much bigger did the group get using the same paint and Freak barrel when you use two sleeves 0.001 " different in diameter? How about best to worst covering 0.008" for all eight Freak sleeves? : I come from the school of thought that I should get performance results that are OBSERVABLE during play or I'm not inclined to spend money on it. I'm not spending money on a statictically significant distribution of a sample amounting to mean variance of 5%. I want results I can SEE. : I would agree that a small bore barrel and large bore paint will likely shoot differently (accuracy wise) than a large bore barrel and a small bore paint. Even be able to SEE the difference in the extremes. No dispute there. : Sure, the extremes would be weirder than the middle of the road matches... And NOBODY wants barrel breaks from squeezing a big ball down a small hole. : Don't take MY word for it. Get a set of mikes out and measure the largest and smallest diameter of each ball for a decent sample size of 20-25 balls. Write them down. Notice the high, low, and average for the largest diameter. Ditto the high, low, and average of the smallest diameter. : In the real world of actually shooting paintballs, how would you PICK which ball diameter you to use for "MATCHING" with a given barrel bore? The largest, smallest, average? : You have two ball diameters on EACH BALL that will range across most of the barrel bores available. How do you "Match" THAT? : Oh buy the way, Measure the SAME BRAND Paint again two months later. Different manufacturing lot. Gee, it has a DIFFERENT High, Low, & Average than you measured this time. : Do the SAME for Every Brand of paint you can get 25 balls for. Swap for 25 balls of every different brand you can find at the field this weekend and take them home. Measure them. Write it down. LOOK at the variance within the same brand ball. : About the time you get sick of miking paintballs, you will realize the ball diameters vary so widely from LOT to LOT in the same brand of paint that it is from a practical point of view : IMPOSSIBLE to "Match" a given ball diameter to a given Bore size UNLESS you have a VERY SMALL variation in the large to small ball diameters. : The is no practical way to be 'scientific' about it because of he variation in paint diameters and out of roundness. : In a practical sense, you wind up finding a paint that performs well in your barrel so you buy it over and over again... You have a 'match'..... Unscientific but it works. : In the "Quest for Accuracy", How ROUND a ball has a LOT more impact on accuracy than trying to 'match' paint diameters to a given bore size. : You can do that SCIENTIFICALLY by just putting the ball in your barrel and holding it up to the light using the procedure in my original post. : Use your barrel as a ball roundness guage and use the roundest paint you can afford. If it doesn't roll out and can be blown by mouth down the barrel then you have a MATCH! : Not too big, not too small, and it shoots straight. : You will find your favorite brand paint shortly after you start borrowing a few balls from different brands of paint to put into your ball 'roundness guage'. : Just run down there this weekend and not even pay a field fee or take a marker. Just take the barrel. Bring a set of mikes and some notepad. Couple of hours ought to do it. : : Dale : : : That's some pretty heavy stuff you're saying about paint to bore size matching not mattering. I applaud you're audacity and your theories are sound, but trying to convince everyone to throw away their long standing beliefs is going to take more than theories. : : I'm just not buying it! I am not the type of person who can be convinced something is true just because the numbers add up. I build automated machinery for a living and I've seen engineers come up with ideas that sound great on paper but they just don't work. On the flip side of that, some theories will never work on paper but in reality they work just fine. For instance, according to engineers and physicists, helecopters should not be able to fly, but we've all witnessed them flying all over Iraq recently. : : For years there have been numerous tests in which the results indicate that painball to bore size DOES matter. Many of these tests were unsolicited so the results wouldn't be biased. I have yet to see the results of a barrel to bore size test that showed no difference between matching and non-matching. : : If you know of any hard proof of your theories please post it in a reply. I would like to see it. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I would love to see you proven right and watch as the whole paintball community jaws hit the ground. I'm just asking for some test results. : : PEACE! [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker ]