Posted by: Pat Mulligan on December 10, 2002 at 19:33:43

Dave A You are 100% absotively posolutely correct in your diagnosis. It works smooth when the marker is degassed, the reg output is already REALLY low, just enough to make everything function (I thought that was the problem at first) I'm gonna try retiming it like you said, cause everything looks like it's lining up alright. Thanks alot for your help, I was ready to melt the thing down and make pepsi cans out it if I couldn't figure it out soon. : Back in the days of the unholiest of unholies, I ran into that a lot. : Try first resetting the output psi of the front reg. If it's a stock reg, that could be part of the problem. Since all the parts of the triggering system play a part in smooth goggings, any two parts that aren't in sync will shut you down. : It's probably not that though, at least not by itself. Something else has to be messing up as well and combining with something. : Why do I say this? Because Im betting that if you take off the trigger frame and manually pull the timing rod, the fourway and ram work fine. And Im betting that when you then pull the trigger off the gun, it too doesn't stick. And whenyou're not gassed up, it's smooth. So why why WHY? The difference is when you gas it up, the little 'chambers' inside the 4way become pressurized. Also the back pressure going into the ram is present (When the air goes to the ram, it doesn't magically disappear, it is pushed back out of the ram by the pressure of the other 4way action. That air vents by pushing past the 4way oring. This, by the way, is the genius conceptual notion of the ram vents that were the rage a few months ago. They allowed venting at the ram instead of having to push back thru the 4way.) : So why why why!? : So even with higher psi from the front reg, your trigger shouldn't have a problem resetting, but it does. So it means something is out of alignment. You have to first make sure the Timing is quite good. If it's set too far in, as in the pin is closer to the body than the end, you may be pulling the pin back too far within the 4way, landing the far oring under the reg input. : If it is a kiss farther it would leak, but if it's right on it, it would add pressure onto the end of the 4way pin. And that would be enough to shut you down. : Try retiming, don' t worry about blowback issues yet, first get it autococking. : After that, you're gonna have to examine the body of the gun and the way the trigger frame lines up with it. Older timing rods would sometimes push out of the timing hole on the trigger plate as it came to the end or begining of the pull. This was partly because of how the trigger plates are made, and partly due to the alignment of the 4way to the trigger rod to the plate. Check how it looks when you pull the trigger, you'll see if it moves off axis or not. This too adds drag to the action, and add this to the 75psi from a stock front reg output (or 55psi...) and you might have a bindup. : Lubing the orings ofcourse is a standard thing, so if you haven't... : I now use an eclipse hinge trigger, and I must say I don't need to tinker or anything any more.

Follow Ups: Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : Dave A : You are 100% absotively posolutely correct in your diagnosis. It works smooth when the marker is degassed, the reg output is already REALLY low, just enough to make everything function (I thought that was the problem at first) I'm gonna try retiming it like you said, cause everything looks like it's lining up alright. : Thanks alot for your help, I was ready to melt the thing down and make pepsi cans out it if I couldn't figure it out soon. : : Back in the days of the unholiest of unholies, I ran into that a lot. : : Try first resetting the output psi of the front reg. If it's a stock reg, that could be part of the problem. Since all the parts of the triggering system play a part in smooth goggings, any two parts that aren't in sync will shut you down. : : It's probably not that though, at least not by itself. Something else has to be messing up as well and combining with something. : : Why do I say this? Because Im betting that if you take off the trigger frame and manually pull the timing rod, the fourway and ram work fine. And Im betting that when you then pull the trigger off the gun, it too doesn't stick. And whenyou're not gassed up, it's smooth. So why why WHY? The difference is when you gas it up, the little 'chambers' inside the 4way become pressurized. Also the back pressure going into the ram is present (When the air goes to the ram, it doesn't magically disappear, it is pushed back out of the ram by the pressure of the other 4way action. That air vents by pushing past the 4way oring. This, by the way, is the genius conceptual notion of the ram vents that were the rage a few months ago. They allowed venting at the ram instead of having to push back thru the 4way.) : : So why why why!? : : So even with higher psi from the front reg, your trigger shouldn't have a problem resetting, but it does. So it means something is out of alignment. You have to first make sure the Timing is quite good. If it's set too far in, as in the pin is closer to the body than the end, you may be pulling the pin back too far within the 4way, landing the far oring under the reg input. : : If it is a kiss farther it would leak, but if it's right on it, it would add pressure onto the end of the 4way pin. And that would be enough to shut you down. : : Try retiming, don' t worry about blowback issues yet, first get it autococking. : : After that, you're gonna have to examine the body of the gun and the way the trigger frame lines up with it. Older timing rods would sometimes push out of the timing hole on the trigger plate as it came to the end or begining of the pull. This was partly because of how the trigger plates are made, and partly due to the alignment of the 4way to the trigger rod to the plate. Check how it looks when you pull the trigger, you'll see if it moves off axis or not. This too adds drag to the action, and add this to the 75psi from a stock front reg output (or 55psi...) and you might have a bindup. : : Lubing the orings ofcourse is a standard thing, so if you haven't... : : I now use an eclipse hinge trigger, and I must say I don't need to tinker or anything any more. [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker ]